Talk:Unnamed Shinigami

Anyone want to advise on this: another possible reason for speculation about Light becoming a shinigami, Ryuk said that he'd make a good one at an earlier point. I don't have the reference immediately to hand, but is it worth adding?

Yeah it is worth saying and the episode is Rebirth(the first one) when he first met Ryuk. Although it is not the fans' final decision whether or not it is Light, we influence the decision of Obata and Ohba (although the decision would most likely be Obata's). By pointing that out you probably convinced a couple more fans that Obata and Ohba meant for him to be Light and convinced them that they have yet another reason to make him Light. Please next time sign it or create a new account and sign. Anybody can take credit for your work unless you sign it.Vladashram 01:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Keep in mind that not every rule in the Death Note has to be true, or any rule for that matter. Though unlikely, you're overlooking the possibility that the 'Mu rule' is fake entirely. Mhmm 08:34, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

If you had read the manag then you would know that in the 12th edition before Light dies Ryuk says that you can't go to heaven or hell, simply because there is no heaven or hell. Also nobody know how Shinigami are created unless there is some theory to that that i don't know about. SilentDeath1337 03:00, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Not 14 reasons they're the same - 15...
In the manga vol.8, ch. 66 page 115, Light says

"Things are gettign exited again!" A Ryuk quote and it also shows his face doing the same expression that Ryuk had...

What the hell does that mean? ' Beyond Lawliet Now a User! Beware the eyes and quirkyness! 23:16, March 8, 2011 (UTC) '

Could
could be matt, he wore goggles....

Exactly What I was Thinkin .... I think it is Matt.

Light would have notice ryuk, and knew how to get into the world of the living... unless his memories were deleted?

-jordanc007

I don't think so... Matt is Left handed. The unknown Shinigami uses his right hand when he pulls out his sythe, and he uses his right hand to throw the shinigami apple to Ryuk. I find it much more likely that this shinigami is indeed Light.

Possible origin for the Unnamed Shinigami.
For those who believe that Light is the mysterious shinigami. Please click on this link. Audio is not needed. Print my be small though. Near Wieb 06:39, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue8fM2FBL_A&feature=related

Different realities (Anime and Manga)
It is possible that the Death Note ANIME and the MANGA are two different realities. Comparing the Anime and Manga there are slight differences that suggest the makers of the anime wanted to adapt the Manga towards their own satisfactions. Satisfactions that wanted Light Yagami to have an Afterlife (as a Shinigami). The evidence for this belief is:

These facts can suggest that the Anime and Manga are different realities and can support the idea that Light Yagami could have indeed been re-incarnated as the unnamed Shinigami seen in the Death note relight 1 film.
 * All the MU (Nothingness) facts seen in the Manga were not really mentioned in the Anime at all.
 * In the anime version of Death Note, Teru Mikami commits suicide with the fountain pen he used to write on the notebook and dies in the warehouse (it is seen that blood goes flying out from his chest) allowing Light to flee the warehouse. However in the Manga, Teru Mikami mysteriously dies in prison.
 * In the Manga ending Light’s death all takes place in the warehouse where he was finally unmasked as Kira, and it’s where Ryuk says to light that all Humans go to “MU (Nothingness)”. However in the Anime ending Light escapes the warehouse and later dies on a stairway and Ryuk’s statement of “MU (Nothingness)” was not said at all. This difference made was Possibly because the Death Note Anime makers wanted Light to have an afterlife, so they ended it in a way that made all this “MU (Nothingness)” irrelevant in the Anime therefore this could have lead to the existence of the Unnamed Shinigami.
 * And of course the unnamed Shinigami itself was only ever seen in the Death note Anime and never the Manga.

There are a few more differences as well, but I think it’s relevant for this information to be included on the Unnamed Shinigami page as well. Please add the possibility of the Anime and Manga being different realities to the page please. I’m convinced that the Shinigami is Light Yagami.

If you watch the last episode you will notice that the Card shown after the commercial break states "After They Die, the place they go is MU (Nothingness)." Despite being never being said in the dialoge this does confim the existence of MU in the anime reality. I will delete that chunk in the main page accordingly. 109.110.96.34 22:05, May 18, 2011 (UTC)Icarus109.110.96.34 22:05, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

Looks like i cant edit can someone do that for me then.

You can edit it, you just need an account. This page is protected so that only registered users can change it. -KidVegetaO

I do have an account, its only letting me see the source for some reason.Omar Abbasi 06:40, May 19, 2011 (UTC)Icarus

The Card shown after the commercial break indeed said "After They Die, the place they go is MU (Nothingness)." But it is not enough to confirm the existence of MU in the anime reality. The Possibilities that can be considered, as said in the main page “some have theorized that the 'nothingness' described in the final rule could be the Shinigami Realm for humans that have used Death Notes, and never coming back to life could mean being reincarnated as a Shinigami.” Also the rule could be false, and ultimately the fact that L’s spirit is seen (in front of the dying light) at the end of the final episode really counter weighs your argument. Please leave the chunk alone :)

This is a wiki page, and needs to be cleaned up quite a bit. I guess I'll do it, if no one else wants to. -KidVegeta

Protection
Requesting this to be unprotected, at least so regular users can edit it. -KidVegeta

To add to the idea that the anime and manga are separate...
Is not a stretch to say that the specials themselves take place in different continuities? Think about that for a second and answer this second question:

Has anyone considered the notion of why the special the shinigami stars in is called "Rewrite"?

re·write (r-rt)

v. re·wrote (-rt), re·writ·ten (-r align=absbottom v:shapes="_x0000_i1030">tn), re·writ·ing, re·writes

v.tr.

1. To write again, especially in a different or improved form; revise.

2. To put (material submitted to a newspaper or magazine) in a form suitable for publishing.

3. Computer Science To save (a usually altered file) over its most recent version in the same storage location.

Now, focusing on just the first definition alone, its easy to quickly assume that the Rewrite specials have replaced the anime's continuity, but I don't like to see it that way. For instance, the novelization of L Change The World bills itself as taking place in an alternate universe from the films.

And realize too that not all of the rules of the Death Note in each continuity/universe have to be the same. In the Last Name film, Ryuk mentioned that there was no afterlife for users of the Death Note but he did not say the same applied for all humans. It would not be a stretch to say that in the films, some people don’t end up in Nu after all, right?

That said, its not out there to think that the notion of going to Nu (nothingness) means you will not come back to life period in the anime and manga, but when we are concerning ourselves with the Rewrite specials, and the films too I guess, we should realize we are dissecting a different animal altogether.

That means in the world of the Rewrite specials it is plausible that Light became resurrected.

-Terumikamilookalike 18:43, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

The films were called rewrite because they were deconstructing the two halves of the death note series down into two films, just for people who had never seen the series. They are still officially part of the anime reality though. - JVR 05 july, 2011

Even though it was not outright stated, it is heavily implied that the Rewrites take place in an alternate continuity. Besides the plot changes in both of them, the "Death Note Rewritten" interview with Kappei Yamaguchi included in the first Relight DVD delves deeper into this matter. Yamaguchi DOES outright say the manga, movies and anime all having different endings and that there was some difficulty in making yet ANOTHER ending, referring specifically to the first Rewrite special. If the Rewrites and the original 37 episodes were part of the same anime continuity, then why bother mentioning the creation of another ending?

And Rewrite 2 has way too many plot alterations to even be remotely considered as taking place in the same continutiy as the anime. Mikami was chosen much sooner by Light, Light takes up the mantle of L and resumes the case much later, Light does not know of Mello's existence until after the SPK is killed (because of the omission of the mafia plot), etc.

<p style="background:white;vertical-align:baseline">Of course, your point is still valid if you consider the Rewrites to be retconing the anime entirely, but last year's Case File Nendoroids http://autaku.com/2010/02/03/figures-nendoroid-puchi-death-note-case-file-02/ lead me to believe that the original anime was not sentenced to be forgotten (referring to Light's "shirtless" appearence as depicted in the anime's second ending sequence). I mean, if the anime was really retconned, then why still make referrences to it?

<p style="background:white;vertical-align:baseline">Terumikamilookalike 23:30, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Dialogue analysis
<p style="margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left: 0in;line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">If we really want to delve into Ryuk's words and use our analysis as possible evidence, then we should use our most primary source possible- Ryuk's original dub from the special.

<p style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left: 0in;line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align:baseline;border-style: initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit">From this site, a fan wrote in japanese word for word the new dialogue that was present in the original japanese dub.

<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:17.25pt;background:white; vertical-align:baseline;border-style:initial;border-color:initial;font-style: inherit;font-weight:inherit">http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/black_knights_party/16365108.html

<p style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left: 0in;line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align:baseline;border-style: initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit">These are Ryuk's words to the shinigami after he finishes his story...

<p style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left: 0in;line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align:baseline;border-style: initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit">リューク (Ryuk)「あのときのお前は、神なんかじゃなかった. あれはむしろ……

<p style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left: 0in;line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align:baseline;border-style: initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit">　　　　　行ったか…. へへっ、行ってみるがいいさ.

<p style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left: 0in;line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align:baseline;border-style: initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit">　　　　　運がよけりゃ、とんでもねえ奴がノートを拾って、一生忘れられねえ面白えもんが見れるだろうよ.

<p style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left: 0in;line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align:baseline;border-style: initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit">　　　　　そうだろう…なあ、月」

<p style="line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align: baseline;border-style:initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit; font-weight:inherit">Now my Japanese is quite far from perfect, but actual Japanese speakers can compare this with the audio provided here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYNgYeIoPJ8&feature=related though I would strongly advise ignoring the subtitles since they are inaccurate.

<p style="line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align: baseline;border-style:initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit; font-weight:inherit;background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial; background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;background-position:initial initial; background-repeat:initial initial">This line “あのときのお前は、神なんかじゃなかった” translates to Ryuk claiming that Light was not a god at the time. Very ambiguous I know. Though Ryuk states in the manga that shinigami are gods in a manner of speaking, is that enough to say that what Ryuk meant by god in that line he meant shinigami? Was he trying to say that Light was not a shinigami at the time his story took place?

<p style="line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align: baseline;border-style:initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit; font-weight:inherit;background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial; background-origin: initial;background-clip: initial;background-position:initial initial; background-repeat:initial initial">Many argue whether or not Ryuk was actually speaking to the shinigami directly or merely reminiscing and talking about Light in passing when he delivers the final line –

<p style="line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align: baseline">そうだろう…なあ、月? (Sōdarou... ... Nā,' 'Raito?)''

<p style="line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align: baseline">Isn't that right, Light?

<p style="line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align: baseline">Sodarou, if I am not mistaken (and I could be) can be used in a rhetorical sense, meaning that Ryuk could have been speaking to Light when he was speaking to the shinigami.

<p style="line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align: baseline">I can only conclude from this that it is left to the viewers interpretation whether or not the shinigami is in fact Light. There is no conclusive evidence for either notion.

<p style="line-height:17.25pt;background:white;vertical-align: baseline">I even had the thought that the "Death Note Rewritten" interview that came with the English release of the special could have shed more light on the matter. It didn't... -Terumikamilookalike 19:13, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

The "pieces of evidence"
''The fifteen pieces of evidence for Light being a shinigami is purely fan speculation. That is why I think its rightful place is here, in the talk page''

<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:17.25pt;vertical-align: baseline">Members of the fan base have theorized that this Unnamed Shinigami may be the reincarnation of Light Yagami. This is largely due to fifteen pieces of evidence:

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ The coat he wears looks very similar to the one Light was wearing when he died.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ He walks up stairs to meet Ryuk, which could be seen as a subtle reference to Light's death.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ The way he tosses the apple to Ryuk, as Light did when alive.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ A red tie (which looks like Light's) is wrapped around the Shinigami's head.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ The Shinigami walks into a bright flash of light at the top of the stairs.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ The fact that he inexplicably knows Ryuk's love for apples without asking the other Shinigami.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ The fact that Ryuk says "Light" after the Unnamed Shinigami leaves.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ The red eyes that in the anime shows Light's 'Kira' personality or Light Shinigami Eyes

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ He carries a scythe, similar to how Light does in some pieces of artwork.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ The limp displayed while walking up the stairs is similar to the way Light limped out of the warehouse.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ The Shinigami's mouth is shaped like Light's "Kira" smile.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ The Unnamed Shinigami does not stay to hear the end of Ryuk's story, yet he is very interested about the human world... If he is the reincarnation of Light, he knows how the story ends and does not want or need to hear about it.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ After looking at his own Death Note, Ryuk speaks to Light as if he was there; "You were not God. You were just...gone already?" This could mean Ryuk was addressing the unnamed Shinigami as Light or that he was simply reminiscing.

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ Light is standing in the Shinigami Realm during the end of the second Intro (possibly relating to the Death Note alternative ending).

<p style="margin-left:30.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;line-height: 17.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in;vertical-align:baseline">§ The Shinigami sports a messenger bag almost identical to the one Light often carried with him in Season One.

<p style="margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left: 0in;line-height:17.25pt;vertical-align:baseline;border-style:initial; border-color:initial;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit">The 'Light' theory is further supported by Ryuk's statement in his first conversation with Light:

<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:17.25pt;vertical-align: baseline;border-style:initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit; font-weight:inherit">"Do not assume that a human who has used a Death Note can go to Heaven or Hell."

<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:17.25pt;vertical-align: baseline;border-style:initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit; font-weight:inherit">This particular rule does not apply to being sent to Purgatory, also known as the Shinigami Realm. This would explain what happens after death to humans that have used a Death Note, as Purgatory (Mu) is neither good or evil. In this realm, 'living' means having an empty existence of nothingness amidst the grey, grunge and greed of the Shinigami Realm.

<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:17.25pt;vertical-align: baseline;border-style:initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit; font-weight:inherit">Also, this does not suggest that all Shinigami were once Humans. Instead, the intent could be that some Shinigami were once Death Note users.

<p style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left: 0in;line-height:17.25pt;vertical-align:baseline;border-style:initial; border-color:initial;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit">However, it is never directly stated in Death Note whether or not the Unnamed Shinigami is the reincarnation of Light Yagami. In fact, the end rules of the notebook (volume 12) clearly state: "After death [of a human], the place they go is Mu (nothingness)." and "Once dead, they can never come back to life." These rules may only apply to the resurrection of a dead body (as in the eraser from the Pilot chapter). <p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:17.25pt;vertical-align: baseline;border-style:initial;border-color:initial;font-style:inherit; font-weight:inherit">Nevertheless, some have theorized that the 'nothingness' described in the final rule could be the Shinigami Realm for humans that have used Death Notes, and never coming back to life could mean being reincarnated as a Shinigami. Although Light may be the exception to these rules, further information has yet to be revealed by either Ohba or Obata. Here is the "reincarnation hint" provided in the manga

<p style="border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-top: 1em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">(Vol. 1, Chap. 6, Pg. 7)

<p style="border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-top: 1em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">[Talking about making Eye Trade]:

<p style="border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-top: 1em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Light: "But you know what? If I did end up making those kinds of deals, I'd end up becoming a Shinigami just like you."

<p style="border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-top: 1em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Ryuk: "There's nothing to worry about there. Light, you're already a fine Shinigami."

<p style="border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-top: 1em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">In addition, the fact that a new Shinigami who shares vast similarities to Light shows up unexplained in the Shinigami Realm, immediately after Light dies, is clearly more than just a coincidence.

Terumikamilookalike 04:22, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

No the evidence is relevant enough to be included on the page and many readers have appreciated reading the facts on the page. I have put them back on - Kira4real 06:01, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

The evidence is still fan speculation though... by putting the "15 pieces of evidence" on the article, it we are treating them as if they are actually something more.

Also, these pieces of evidence can be debated. Take the "shinigami knew of Ryuk's love for apples" one. Consider that many shinigami knew Ryuk well, so they certainly could have let it slip that Ryuk loved apples. In addition, had the shinigami had the memories of Light, why would he have needed to talk to Ryuk in the first place? He was already bored with the shinigami realm to begin with. Why hear the story of Light Yagami if he already knew of it?Terumikamilookalike 06:19, July 25, 2011 (UTC)